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Feature #11766

Make the German translation gender neutral

Added by u about 3 years ago. Updated 7 months ago.

Status:
Confirmed
Priority:
Normal
Assignee:
Category:
-
Target version:
-
Start date:
09/03/2016
Due date:
% Done:

0%

Feature Branch:
Type of work:
End-user documentation
Blueprint:
Starter:
Affected tool:

Description

I suggest to create a branch for this which can be assigned for review to other german translators.

Screenshot_20180831_175748.png View (12.7 KB) spriver, 08/31/2018 04:00 PM


Subtasks

Feature #11767: Gender neutral translations in German: discuss MITMConfirmedspriver


Related issues

Related to Tails - Feature #11765: Document in "How to add a new language" that we want gender neutral translations Confirmed 09/03/2016
Related to Tails - Feature #14954: Create a German glossary Confirmed 11/11/2017
Related to Tails - Feature #10181: Non-discriminatory language Confirmed 09/11/2015

History

#1 Updated by BitingBird almost 3 years ago

  • Related to Feature #11767: Gender neutral translations in German: discuss MITM added

#2 Updated by sajolida almost 3 years ago

  • Subject changed from Make the german translation gender neutral to Make the German translation gender neutral
  • Status changed from New to Confirmed
  • Parent task deleted (#10034)

I don't think this should be a subtask of "Feature #10034: Translation web platform". But it already has an assignee so I guess it's confirmed.

#3 Updated by sajolida almost 3 years ago

  • Related to deleted (Feature #11767: Gender neutral translations in German: discuss MITM)

#4 Updated by sajolida almost 3 years ago

  • Category set to Internationalization

#5 Updated by sajolida almost 3 years ago

  • Related to Feature #11765: Document in "How to add a new language" that we want gender neutral translations added

#6 Updated by intrigeri almost 3 years ago

  • Category deleted (Internationalization)

(This is l10n, not i18n. Our website is i18n'ed already.)

#7 Updated by u about 2 years ago

Hi spriver, is there such a gender neutral branch or have the german translators been working on this directly in master in the end?

#8 Updated by spriver almost 2 years ago

  • Target version set to 2018

u wrote:

Hi spriver, is there such a gender neutral branch or have the german translators been working on this directly in master in the end?

We're currently implementing it a bit when translating new content or updating content. I'm currently working on an more "official" proposal to have some guidelines etc. for this.

#9 Updated by spriver almost 2 years ago

#10 Updated by u about 1 year ago

#11 Updated by spriver about 1 year ago

Possible solutions in German to provide a gender-neutral language

  • e.g. Benutzende
  • add a "disclaimer" that we address everyone and that we understand the general problem but use common wording as it's less complicated. -> aka. leave as it is
  • use both female/male wording, e.g. "Benutzerinnen und Benutzer".
  • switch around between e.g. male and female
  • "internal I" aka Binnen-I (BenutzerInnen)
  • "Gender-x" abolish gender completely and replace it by an "x" or "ces", e.g. "Benutzx" resp. "Benutzecs"

#12 Updated by spriver about 1 year ago

We have to be careful with "new" forms and variants that could break compatibility with screen readers.

I did some tests in Tails with common variants of gendering words:

Standard wording (works without problems):

  • Benutzerinnen und Benutzer
  • Benutzende

Gender Gaps (working without any problems):

  • Benutzer.innen (spriver's personal favourite)
  • BenutzerInnen
  • Benutzer﹡innen

Gender Gaps that won't work

  • Benutzer*innen (pronounced Benutzersterninnen)
  • Benutzer∗innen (pronounced Benutzerasteriskinnen)
  • Benutzer_innen (pronounced Benutzerunterstrichinnen)

Other Variants:

  • Benutzx (sounds quite clumsy)
  • Benutzecs (sounds okayish, but not all people might understand)

#13 Updated by u about 1 year ago

Benutzer.innen (spriver's personal favourite)

I like it.

I just hope that po checkers do not freak out if there are more dots in the translation than in the original string. We should verify what Weblate and poedit do when that happens. Do they block saving the file? If yes, we have a problem.. :)

#14 Updated by spriver about 1 year ago

u wrote:

Benutzer.innen (spriver's personal favourite)

I like it.

I just hope that po checkers do not freak out if there are more dots in the translation than in the original string. We should verify what Weblate and poedit do when that happens. Do they block saving the file? If yes, we have a problem.. :)

(:

I double-checked the poedit workflow, it would work out with "Benutzer.innen". But I don't know how to check with Weblate though.

#16 Updated by muri about 1 year ago

(just ftr: there is also the form 'Benutzerinnen' ;))

I didn't know the dot-version before, thanks for bringing that up! And i'm fine with using it.
Thanks also for the digitalcourage link- i like their 4 point strategy, what do you think about using it? i'm not sure if their order is set in stone, i'd probably say: if the first point is not an option, chose one of 2,3,4 depending on the context.

Kann eine geschlechtsmarkierte Form vermieden werden? (z.B. „Grundrechte“ statt „Bürgerrechte“, „Studierende“ statt „Studenten“ oder „alle“ statt „jeder“)
Falls nein, ist Beidnennung elegant möglich?
Falls nein, lässt sich ggf. abwechseln? („Ärztinnen und Patienten“)
Falls nein, Beidnennung durch den Punkt („Redner.in“).

(i esp. like the third point, because it makes it possible to invert gender roles, like 'Chefin und Sekretär')

#17 Updated by intrigeri 7 months ago

  • Target version deleted (2018)

2018 is over and this did not make it on our roadmap for next year.

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